It’s no simple task to pin down Wu Jiaru’s practice. Blending mythical themes with personal experiences, contemporary cogitations with historical perspectives, her paintings, sculptures and other artworks are the results of constant discovery. Her artistic creations have been shown in New York, London and across Asia. On the occasion of her most recent exhibition, A Brief Digression, presented at HART Haus, Wu sat down with Artomity for a conversation about the way she makes art, the flow of people and goods, and the way information is lost and recovered through multiple stages of translation.

Brady Ng: We’re visiting your studio. Tell me about it. Wu Jiaru: It’s like a storage unit! My studio is in HART Haus, which is basically a coworking space for artists. When I need to make larger pieces, I use the public spaces that are more open. My own studio space is mainly for storing artworks.

I’ve been renting space here since I graduated from City University of Hong Kong in 2017.

BN: Jeffrey Shaw, who is one of the pioneers of digital media, hired you as a research associate. Did he influence what you do? WJ: He is an inspiring figure. But at the same time, I don’t really categorise my career as an artist based on media.

BN: Your show A Brief Digression is currently at HART Haus. What’s it about? WJ: I’ve made a lot of art about identity as it relates to people’s relocation. That reflects my own status in Hong Kong, where I’m an immigrant. But this year, I realised those changes aren’t limited to myself. Everyone has a lot of baggage—metaphorically and literally. 

I thought about the journey of objects that have travelled with me to different places, and the care that I give them when I wrap up and pack them over and over again. There are some themes of logistics, of going from point A to point B, but that route is not always straightforward. There could be detours and long paths during the journey.

BN: What’s the digression that you refer to? WJ: It’s the English translation of a phrase I’ve been thinking about (不達). There are different layers of meaning from there, like taking longer to do something if you try to go too quickly (欲速則不達) or failing to express oneself precisely (辭不達意). 

These ideas are a bit like logistical paths being congested, and goods not being able to reach their destinations efficiently. 

BN: You were a one-person crew during the show’s installation. WJ: I worked on the entire exhibition and installation process on my own. I’m quite familiar with HART Haus, so I wanted to experiment and make adjustments to create something that is site-specific. I’m more patient with the space here.

BN: You’ve been in Hong Kong for nearly a decade. Do you still carry that identity as an outsider or immigrant? WJ: I don’t think I can shed that identity. It’s not that I emphasise it but people see my work and say that a born-and-bred Hong Kong artist probably wouldn’t follow the same line of thinking or might not make art like I do. 

That’s how these keywords became associated with me, but that doesn’t bother me.

BN: How do you specifically think about layering different ideas into your work? WJ: It’s like muscle memory for me. I prefer to express myself in ways that aren’t so direct. Sometimes, this can feel like it’s a puzzle. I also want to keep it interesting for people who like my art, so they don’t get bored. Their interactions with my artworks can lead to different feelings or conclusions. 

Putting my work out there makes me feel vulnerable. I want to explore new things as much as possible—at least that keeps me happy. 

BN: Some of your artworks in A Brief Digression have a quality of vulnerability. They’re literally hidden in cardboard boxes. WJ: Yes! It’s all about being in a package or being like a message in a bottle—it’s floating in the sea but nobody knows when the contents will be taken out by another person. Yet a stranger may eventually come along, open it and reveal a surprise within. 

BN: Francis Bacon appears in your work repeatedly. You even made a moving-image work, C Bacon (2015), that directly refers to him. Why? WJ: I find his sense of aesthetics and his life story appealing. He was also the first artist whose work left an impression on me when I was a kid, and I remember thinking, “Wow, that’s how someone can express themselves.” It’s impossible to shake off the feeling or imprint after that. He’s a constant source of inspiration, and there are times when I try to unlearn things and break Bacon’s composition. 

It’s also his use of colour. As a painter, I think a lot about how colours come together in a scene or image, and I appreciate how he approached this. On that note, when it comes to colour, I also like Matisse a lot, but not his lackadaisical brushstrokes.

Overall, my practice is informed more by western or expressionist styles, even though my artistic education was chiefly in the Chinese-Soviet style. 

BN: You were one of the 2022 Asian Cultural Council grantees. What did you do during your six months in the US? WJ: I visited museums often and spent a lot of time walking around New York, and I worked hard to develop an understanding of what the artistic circles were like there by having conversations with artists. I was the most interested in Asian artists who have gone over and are now based in the US, especially if they were originally from Hong Kong or mainland China. Through my interactions with them, I tried to find out how they subsist.

There were a lot of other things that were memorable, like the subway and the people in general. The energy was different there. I was also a different person—I was more open and small talk was easier with strangers.

After a while, I left New York and visited Angel Island [in San Francisco Bay]. It was an immigrant station in the early 1900s, where immigrants from China and other parts of Asia were processed and sometimes detained for a long time. But it happened to be Juneteenth [June 19, a public holiday marking the end of slavery in the US] when I visited, so the museum was closed. I made some 3D scans of the spaces on the island, and it was an eye-opening place.

For instance, the people who were kept there were separated by race. Chinese people had their meals in one cluster, Europeans were in their own group and so on. There are plaques that describe all of this at the site.

BN: Your research focus was on Asian immigrants in the US. How did you approach that?WJ: For some of the people who are a bit older, like the ones who emigrated in the 1970s, I felt like I would be too intrusive if I asked them about their history and experiences, and I felt like that interaction may not be meaningful for them.

So I decided to let those encounters unfold naturally, as fate would flow. Instead of actively seeking out people to interview, it made more sense to me to let connections happen without forcing them. 

BN: You travel with a bolt of linen. WJ: A larger roll of linen is part of my show at HART Haus, but I also have another that’s smaller and lighter, and I also bought a bolt in New York and sent it back to Hong Kong. For me, travelling with linen is about anticipating the opportunity to make new work. But I also worry a lot, like can my oils be sent to different places? Would the tubes break? Would they dry out? Would the fabric tear, would the frame warp? 

BN: What was your conclusion from the residency? WJ: That I can’t live in New York. It’s a great place to experience and the people are inspiring. But the city’s pace is hasty and it can be difficult to find a balance there.

I feel more comfortable in Hong Kong. No matter what sort of event or opening I go to, there are other people who aren’t constantly in work mode. This place is where I feel comfortable.

BN: Tell me about your tattoo. WJ: It’s a red line on my left arm. If a collector buys this work, they can claim my left arm and anything attached to it. This is written into my will. The logistics and execution will be up to the collector.

There is a point about the legality of all of this: is it, in legal terms, the same as selling a human organ? I’m not sure, but the point of the artwork is about consent rather than the actual transfer of my arm to the person who has the right to claim it.

BN: Has somebody already bought this artwork, Will (2021)? WJ: Yes, and their name is in my will. They can transfer the ownership to another person if they want.

After I die, whoever owns this artwork shall receive a copy of my will, which explains this work in more detail. So the artist statement will only be fully revealed after my passing.

BN: What are you working on now? WJ: I have some series of paintings that are being developed. Some were shown at Supper Club [an alternative art fair held at the Fringe Club in March 2024]—my spillover paintings that are darker and a bit more violent.

I want to continue to develop Unknown Tales. Four of the paintings [Unknown Tales iii, iv, v, vi, all 2024] are in A Brief Digression. I want them to be a continuation of my solo show at Flowers Gallery [To the Naiad’s House, 2022] and include themes of mythology and intimacy. 

BN: Tell me about the reflective coating that you use in some of your paintings and sculptures. WJ: It’s related to the scenes I saw in 2019, particularly during the evenings in Western District. That was the first time I experienced tear gas smoke. Right when the canisters begin to release smoke, there’s a flash. I wanted to recreate that moment. I tried it with a lot of silvery materials, and the coating I use now is the closest to the flash effect I want to emulate, in the moment when light fills everything. Now, it’s a flash linked to persistent memories.

BN: We’re speaking in Cantonese now. I’ll file this article with Artomity in English. Then, they’ll translate that text back to Chinese for print, and we’ll end up where we started, but different. WJ: [Laughs] That’s very much like my art practice. Things get lost and found in translation.

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要理解吳佳儒的作品一點也不容易。她融合了神話和自己的個人經歷、現代思想和歷史觀點，她的畫、雕塑及其他藝術作品就是她持續探索所衍生的成果。她的作品曾於紐約、倫敦和亞洲各地展出。就她最近在 HART Haus 舉辦的展覽「不達」，吳佳儒與 Artomity 坐下來討論她創作藝術的方式、人和物的流動，以及信息如何丟失並透過多個階段的翻譯恢復。 

Brady Ng: 我們正在參觀你的工作室。請你介紹一下。吳佳儒：這就像一個儲物櫃！我的工作室位於 HART Haus，這裡基本上是藝術家的共同工作空間。當我需要製作更大的作品時，我會使用更開放的公共空間。我自己的工作室空間主要是用來存放藝術品的。

自 2017 年從香港城市大學畢業後，我就一直在這裡租用空間。

BN: 邵志飛是數碼媒體的先驅之一，他聘請了你擔任研究員。他是否有對你產生影響？WJ：他是位很有啟發性的人。但與此同時，我並沒有把自己的事業歸類為以媒體為基礎的藝術家。

BN：你的展覽「不達」目前正在 HART Haus 舉行。這次展覽是關於什麼？WJ：我創作了很多關於與人移居有關的身份的作品。這反映了我自己在香港的狀態，我是香港的新移民。但今年，我意識到這些改變不僅限於我自己。每個人都有很多包袱——無論是比喻的還是實際上的。

我想起了那些陪我去過不同旅程的物品，以及我小心翼翼地反覆包裹和打包的時候。有一些關於從 A 點到 B 點的運輸主題，路線並不一定是直接到達。旅途中可能會遇到彎路和長路。

BN：你所指的「 digression」是什麼？WJ：這是一個我一直在思考的短語（不達）的英文翻譯。這個詞有多層的意思，例如「欲速則不達」或「辭不達意」。

這些想法有點像是物流路線堵塞，所以貨物無法迅速地到達目的地。

BN：你獨自一人準備展覽的裝置。WJ：整個展覽和裝置過程都是我一個人完成的。我對 HART Haus 非常熟悉，所以我想嘗試和調整作品令它們更融入HART Haus這個特定地點。我對這裡的空間更有耐心。

BN：你來香港近十年了。你是否仍然覺得自己是局外人或新移民？WJ：我不認為自己可以擺脫這個身份。我在創作中並沒有強調這一點，但是觀眾看到我的作品後都說一個土生土長的香港藝術家的思路不會是這樣，也應該不會創作出這樣的作品。

這些關鍵字與我一直息息相關，但這並不會讓我覺得困擾。

BN：你對於將不同的想法層層加疊到作品之中有何看法？WJ：這對我來說就像是肌肉記憶。我更喜歡以不那麼直接的方式表達自己。有時候，這種感覺就像是拼圖。我也想讓喜歡我的作品的人一直感到有趣，這樣他們就不會覺得無聊。他們與我的作品的互動可以帶來不同的感受或結論。

公開展示自己的作品讓我感到脆弱。我想盡可能探索新事物——至少這會讓我高興。

BN：你在「不達」中的一些作品可以看出其中的脆弱感。它們隱藏在紙板箱中。WJ：是的！這就像是裝在一個包裹裡或者漂流瓶中的訊息一樣——它在海中漂浮，但是沒有人知道裡面的東西什麼時候會被另一人取出。可能最終會有一個陌生人出現，打開它並看到裡面的驚喜。

BN：法蘭西斯·培根在你的作品中多次出現。你甚至製作了一部直接提及他的動態影像作品《C Bacon》（2015年）。為什麼？WJ：我覺得他的美感和人生故事很吸引。他也是第一個在我年幼時作品給我留下深刻印象的藝術家。我記得自己當時在想：「哇，這就是一個人表達自己的方法。」我不可能忘記這種感覺或印記。他就是我源源不絕的靈感來源，有時候我也會試著忘記一些東西和放下培根的對我的影響。

他對色彩的運用也很吸引我。作為一名畫家，我會想很多關於顏色如何在場景或圖像中組合在一起的問題，我很欣賞他的處理方式。說到色彩的運用，我也很喜歡馬蒂斯，但卻不懂得欣賞他慵懶的筆觸風格。

整體而言，儘管我的藝術教育主要是中蘇風格，但是我的創作更受到西方或表現主義風格影響。

BN：你是 2022 年亞洲文化協會的受資助者之一。你在美國的六個月裡做了什麼？WJ：我經常去博物館，也花了很多時間在紐約散步。透過與藝術家對話，我努力了解當地的藝術圈。我對移居美國的亞洲藝術家最感興趣，尤其是來自香港或中國大陸的藝術家。我嘗試通過與他們的互動去了解他們如何適應當地。

還有很多其他難忘的事情，例如地鐵和當地的人。那邊散發的能量不一樣。我也變成了一個不一樣的人——變得比較開放和與陌生人閒聊也比較容易。

過了一段時間後我離開了紐約，去了舊金山灣的天使島。這裡是 1900 年代初的一個移民站，來自中國和亞洲其他地區的移民都會在這裡進行移民程序，有時甚至會被長期拘留。我去的時候正值六月節（6月19日，代表美國奴隸制結束的公共假期），所以博物館休息了。我對島上的空間進行了一些 3D 掃描，這是一個令人大開眼界的地方。

例如，被關在那裡的人是按種族分類的。中國人被放在一起吃飯，歐洲人又被放在一起吃飯等等。那裡有牌子描述這些所有情況。

BN：你的研究重點是美國的亞洲移民。你是如何進行研究的？WJ：對於一些年紀大一點的人，像是1970年代移民的人，我覺得如果我問關於他們的過去和經歷會過於侵犯，而且這種互動可能並沒有意義。 。

所以我決定讓那些相遇順其自然，順著命運流動。我認為與其主動找人採訪，不如讓聯繫自然發生。

BN：你帶著一捆亞麻布旅行。WJ：我在 HART Haus 展覽有一卷更大的亞麻布，但我還有另一卷更小更輕的。我還在紐約買了一捆寄回香港。對我來說，帶著亞麻布旅行是在等待著創作新作品的機會，但是我也對很多事情感到擔憂，例如我的油可以寄到不同的地方嗎？它們的管子會破裂嗎？它們會變乾嗎？布料會撕裂嗎？畫框會變形嗎？

BN：對於是次旅程你有什麼結論？WJ：我不能住在紐約。這是一個很值得體驗的地方，這裡的人也很有啟發性。可是這座城市的步伐很急促，很難在那裡找到平衡。

我在香港感覺比較舒服。無論我參加什麼樣的活動或開幕式，都有些人不會總是處於工作模式。這個地方是我覺得很自在。

BN：請說說你的紋身。WJ：這是我左臂上的一條紅線。如果有收藏家想購買了這件作品，他們可以拿走我的左臂以及附著在上面的任何東西。這已經寫進我的遺囑裡了。運輸和執行將由收藏家決定。

這個安排有一個法律問題：從法律角度來說，這是否等同於出售人體器官？我不確定，但是這件藝術品的意義在於我的許可，而不是把我的手臂實際轉移給它的買家。

BN：有人已經認購了這件藝術品《Will》（2021年）嗎？WJ：有，其名已納入我的遺囑裡。如果他們想，他們可以將所有權轉移給另一個人。

在我死後，擁有這件藝術品的人會收到我的遺囑副本，其中更詳細地解釋了這件作品。所以藝術家聲明只有在我過世後才能完全揭曉。

BN：你現在有什麼進行中的計劃？WJ：我正在創作一些系列的繪畫作品。其中一些曾在藝匯（2024 年 3 月在藝穗會舉辦的另類藝術博覽會）上展出過——我的《溢出》系畫作的風格更深沉也更暴力些。

我想繼續發展《Unknown Tales》系列。其中的四幅畫作 《Unknown Tales iii, iv, v, vi》 （2024年）都有在「不達」中展示。我希望它們成為我在弗勞爾斯畫廊的個展「轉轉瀟湘館」（2022年）的延續，並加入神話和親密的主題。

BN：請說說你在一些畫和雕塑中使用的反光塗層。WJ：這和我在2019年看到的場景有關，特別是西區的晚上。那是我第一次經歷催淚瓦斯煙霧。當罐子開始釋放煙霧時，就會出現閃光。我想重現那一刻。我嘗試了很多銀色物料，現在使用的塗層最接近我想模仿的閃光效果，在那一刻我只看到閃光。現在，它是與深刻的回憶相連的閃光。

BN：我們現在用廣東語對談。我會用英文向 Artomity 提交這篇文章。然後，他們會將文字翻譯回中文出版，所以我們最終會回到開始的地方，但又有點不一樣。WJ：[笑]這很像我的創作習慣。在翻譯的過程中會失去又加入一些東西。